Dr. Bev Smallwood Gives Solutions to The Comparison Trap

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Bill Lampton: Hi there. Welcome to The Biz Communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton, the Biz Communication Guy. The Biz Communication Show is in its eighth year of bringing you business communication tips and strategies that will boost your business.
Fortunately, I don’t rely only on my comments, and neither will you. As always, I have a stimulating, highly informative, and helpful guest. Today, I know that you will be glad to hear from my guest, Dr. Beverly Smallwood of Hattiesburg, Mississippi.
Dr. Smallwood is a licensed psychologist and professional speaker who has been working with organizations for more than 40 years in nine countries around the world. Bev founded her clinical and consulting organization, The Hope Center, in 1984. In her clinic, she has counseled and coached literally thousands of individuals and families in all the struggles of life. Her clients include hospitals and other healthcare organizations, financial institutions, Fortune 500 companies, and several national governments. She often speaks on burnout.
Bev’s the author of the book This Wasn’t Supposed to Happen to Me: 10 Make-or-Break Choices When Life Steals Your Dreams and Rocks Your World. Her upcoming book is entitled All the Rage: Detox Angry Relationships, Build Emotional Immunity, and Find Your Missing Peace. Bev has frequently been featured on TV, radio, podcasts, and other online media.
So I know that you welcome me in joining Dr. Bev Smallwood. Hello, Bev!
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Hello there, Bill!
Bill Lampton: It’s delightful to host you, and I will let our viewers and listeners know that you and I grew up in that same small town—
Dr. Bev Smallwood: The same small town!
Bill Lampton: —Mississippi.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Look what—I mean, we should be their unique claim to fame, I think. Don’t you? (laughs)
Bill Lampton: (laughs) Well, we’ll have to ask some of them about that. I don’t—I don’t think we can—I mean, we’re not in politics, so we can’t just announce it.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right.
Bill Lampton: And now, of course, you’re in, as I mentioned, Hattiesburg, Mississippi, where you got your higher education and you’ve had your practice for a long time so effectively. I’d like to begin, Bev, first of all, welcoming you again.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Thank you. Thank you.
Bill Lampton: And then secondly, let’s talk about that upcoming book. I gave the title, All the Rage.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: All the Rage. And actually, I just recognized that when we sent you that, the subtitle has been changed since then. So let me give the real subtitle. It’s All the Rage: How to Deal with Angry People Without Becoming One Yourself.
Bill Lampton: That sounds so vital, and it sounds so timely. I think if any of us spend very much time on the internet at all, it just amplifies, I think, because many people think they have anonymity there, even though their name and picture are there. That’s one place that we find so much anger. And in letters to the editor, I see a lot of anger going on.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right.
Bill Lampton: So what are some of the possible examples of rage that you mention, and then more importantly, how do we address them? What do you suggest that we do to bring a bit of calmness and sanity in the midst of all this?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yeah. Well, as you said, all you have to do is turn on any kind of media, whether it’s online or the TV or wherever you want to turn it on, and you see that. And the news—I mean, just turn on the news and you’ll see the murders and the violence and all of those things.
But even more importantly, Bill, is in our workplaces and in our homes, many of us are living walking on eggshells and not knowing when we’re going to say the wrong thing, or what we can say to whom, and just how to keep our own selves calm so that we’re not controlled by those things that happen to us.
Bill Lampton: I think something I’d like to add to that is we’ve mentioned the media, and I would include in that certainly newspapers. I know there’s an old saying, of course, about news: “If it doesn’t bleed, it doesn’t lead.”
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right.
Bill Lampton: And I’ve noticed that a great preponderance of news among the newspapers that are left—and of course, we know that’s declining—on many of the newspapers that I see or browse, it has almost become a crime reporting page, and the letters to the editor are very vicious as well.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right.
Bill Lampton: Now, we’ve identified the problem. What do you see as the major causes for this almost universal problem?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: You know, I think there’s really been a shift in what we are given permission to say, modeled by people in leadership at a lot of different levels. Things that people would never have said before, now it’s just commonplace to be able to say it.
But the thing is that no matter what this culture is saying, as an individual, we have the ability to make choices about how we’re going to respond. And I don’t know about you, but I don’t plan to let someone else’s definition of what’s appropriate change who I am on the inside. I want to live and come forth in this world as a person of purpose and the person that I am.
And I think to do that, I have to:
  1. Know what my purpose is, as I said, and the impact that I want to have on other people. I do not have to just respond in kind; as a matter of fact, I’m going to choose not to.
  2. Recognize I have the ability, the agency, and the choice to come back and respond to what somebody says in a way that de-escalates and in fact solves problems rather than escalating the problem—attacking the problem and not the person.
Bill Lampton: I think what this brings to mind to me is an old saying: “It takes two to tango.” And so if we have, for example, a neighbor—or you talked about the workplace—if we have a work colleague who wants to dominate, aggravate, or just take control of the situation, and some who seem to enjoy hostility and conflict…
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Mhm.
Bill Lampton: You bring to mind to me that we have choices of how we’re going to react to that. And if we get into the boxing ring and we start, then the fight is on. What are ways that you help clients get out of or reduce these situations?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, the first thing to do is to be able to de-escalate yourself on the inside and to calm that down. So if you can get any kind of pause—I mean, even if it means excusing yourself to go to the lady’s room or somewhere—just to get some kind of pause to let your own arousal go down.
And also, look at the way you are appraising that situation. Because sometimes somebody’s openly aggressive, but sometimes you can be in the habit of taking things a certain way so that pushes your buttons.
  • First of all: Know your own hot buttons, have the ability to breathe, and get a pause before coming back and really addressing the issue.
  • Secondly: As you said, don’t return kind for kind, but instead lower your voice. We learned a long time ago when I was in counseling training that if you had a hostile client and they were yelling, rather than bringing your voice up so that they can hear you (which we tend to do sometimes), keep your voice not just at a normal level, but lower your voice.
Bill Lampton: And that can change the atmosphere.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: It does change the atmosphere. There’s a proverb that says, “A soft answer turns away wrath,” and there’s really some truth in that.
You know, Bill, I’ve got a little bit of a croaky voice today, and I’ve noticed this: that if you have true laryngitis and you’re going around just whispering all day, by the end of the day, people are whispering to you! (laughs) Have you noticed that? We just have a tendency to match what the other person is doing. So if you can soften your voice, then that changes the atmosphere and invites the other person to calm it down.
Bill Lampton: I’d like to respond to your points there.
One is walk away from the situation if you can. Sometimes in a heated argument, let’s say among a manager and a subordinate, it works well—and I was in administration a long time—to suggest, “Why don’t we talk about this tomorrow? Let’s think it over a little bit and let’s talk about it tomorrow.”
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes.
Bill Lampton: And then I would also want to comment on your bit about how we respond verbally. It could very well be that we have misinterpreted their mood. Possibly they’re not intending to come across angry. And so sometimes we can—and as a psychologist, I know you suggest this—we can say something to the effect of, “What are you implying?” or “What do you mean by that?” or—
Dr. Bev Smallwood: “Help me understand” is a soft way to say it. “Help me understand that better.”
Bill Lampton: Yes! Right, right. And so there are a couple of things that we’ve observed so far here:
  1. Don’t get combative yourself.
  2. See if you can put a little time space between the discussion.
  3. Find out if your interpretation of the situation is correct just by probing as to what the feelings are.
Would that be the approach as a psychologist that you take?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes, all good things. And I would add something to that point about giving it a little bit of space.
Whether it’s about a conflict that you have with somebody, or whether it’s a manager who’s going to talk with an employee about a performance issue, I advise people to actually make an appointment to discuss it.
Here’s how you do that. You would say:
“Bill, I’d like to talk with you about what happened with us yesterday in the meeting because I’ve been kind of thinking about it, and I want us to get our heads together and be sure that we don’t get crosswise like that again. When might be a good time for you to talk about that? Maybe sometime tomorrow or the next day?”
What I’ve done is:
  • I have named the issue.
  • I have modeled to the person that this is going to be a collaborative discussion. I’m showing by my manner what my intent is. I’ve used terms like “let’s get our heads together,” which is a collaborative statement.
  • I’m allowing that person time to think about it. I’ve already had time to think about it, so by naming the issue, I allow them that same time, which reduces defensiveness. If they feel blindsided and caught off guard, they’re going to be a lot more defensive and less of a listener.
  • I gave that person some choice. Anytime we give people choice, they feel less defensive in the process. “When might be a good time? Where would you like to get together—my office or yours?”
Giving choice ensures they are not blindsided, making it a lot more likely that it’s going to be a great discussion.
Bill Lampton: Bev, this is absolutely a good formula for healing relationships which could get way off track if we heal them quite early. We can reduce a lot of that rage that your upcoming book talks about.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Right. Keep your accounts up to date. Don’t let it pile up. Do it promptly, and then it’s not a big deal.
Bill Lampton: Yes, and I would guess that you might tell couples that same advice.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Oh, yeah! When I’m working with couples in the office, I have a step-by-step process that I go through, and I’ve detailed that in the book for people to be able to follow.
Bill Lampton: Bev, I want to get to another topic, and that is the comparison trap that you and I have thought about before and talked about. We’ll do that in just a couple of seconds, right after this.
[Commercial Break]

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Bill Lampton: We’re here today with Dr. Bev Smallwood: psychologist, author, speaker. And Bev, I remember looking at some of your YouTube material and also your website, and you talked about falling into the comparison trap. Explain to us what that is and what might be the effects that the comparison trap has on us.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: That’s one of the traps that can erode self-worth, and self-worth is at the foundation of so many of our reactions. We have to be confident, or else we’re defensive, and so it definitely affects anger.
Let’s talk about some of the false equations for self-worth:
  • “My self-worth is because of my performance.” (There are traps in that.)
  • “My self-worth is based on what others think of me.”
  • “My self-worth is based on what I think others think of me.”
One of the ways that we judge that is by comparing ourselves to other people. And not just comparing some characteristic, but making a judgment about our worth based on how we compare.
Bill, there’s always going to be somebody that has a little more, that is a little more accomplished, has a little bigger house, a nicer car, and whatever. If we use that as our standard for self-worth, we’re constantly going to come up short.
Bill Lampton: Yes, there’s so many measurements that we could say, “Gosh, this person has a more expensive house, this one is higher paid,” and so on. It seems to me that this was something you first noticed long before you became a psychologist—in your teenage years. Tell us about that.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, yeah! I noticed it in myself. I think I might have weighed maybe 117 or something as a teenager, but I was around all these girls that weighed 100! (laughter) Now I would kill to weigh 117!
Just that comparison of: How do I look as compared to that person? Do the boys like her more than they do me? And so on.
We can bring that right on into adulthood. We laugh at some of the things we thought of as a teenager, but my goodness—you go to a conference and you see someone who is just knocking it out of the park and you go, “Why? What’s wrong with me that I’m not doing that?”
It is guaranteed to cause you to have some chronic insecurities, because there will always be someone.
We have our own lane. My comparison should not be to you, Bill, or to anybody else. My comparison should be:
  1. Am I in my lane? Am I doing those things that I’m designed to do?
  2. Am I a little bit further along than I was?
My comparison is to my own performance and my own journey. Am I taking one more step, one more step?
Bill Lampton: I’d like to echo back to my own teen years when, as you know, you and I both went to Columbia High School in Columbia, Mississippi. We know that, as is the case in most small towns, Friday night is king, and the football players are the stars. Growing up, that’s one thing you aspire to do as a boy.
In seventh grade, I went out for what was called peewee football.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Peewee, okay.
Bill Lampton: Yes, and I played right tackle. I can remember so well, Bev, the day that I got on the scales and I weighed 100 pounds! (laughter)
Dr. Bev Smallwood: You were trying to weigh 100 pounds; I was trying in the other direction! (laughs)
Bill Lampton: That’s right! Let’s figure out how that went. They didn’t eliminate anybody from the team, but as I recall, during all the bus trips we took to neighboring towns to play, I think I played three plays that season.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Three plays.
Bill Lampton: That could have shaped me far later in life, but fortunately, I came to understand that was not the case. I became a college and high school member of the golf team, and there were a lot of those football players that didn’t do that. So as you say, we have our own lane.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: In your own lane.
Bill Lampton: And getting to that, I liked an answer you gave about what happens to runners who start looking at the other lane. Tell us about that.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Well, you know what’s going to happen. If you’re looking to the side instead of straight ahead where your next step is going, you’re going to stumble and fall. It’s just the way it’s going to happen.
That same thing happens in life. If we’re busy looking this way or looking back, then we do not have our eyes on the next thing that really is possible for us and the next step that we’re supposed to take. Sometimes we get confused about, “Maybe I don’t even know what my next step is.”
Can I tell you a quick story, Bill?
Bill Lampton: Sure!
Dr. Bev Smallwood: When my daughter was just four, we lived across the street from a little lady named Miss Franks. Miss Franks did a lot of arts and crafts and things like that, and we would go over and Miss Franks would teach Amy about how to do different things.
One day, we had been over there pretty long and we started back down the long, winding driveway of where she lived. It was dark—we stayed a little longer than we thought—it was very dark. Amy had my hand and she said, “Mommy, Mommy, what are we going to do? We can’t see!”
And then she said, “Wait, wait. We can’t see out there, but if we look right in front of us, we can see how to take the next step.”
Bill Lampton: Wow, that’s an illustration you’ve used many times, I would imagine, in dealing with clients.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Absolutely, absolutely. You don’t have to have the whole path. You certainly don’t need to be looking this way or that way. But when you look down at your feet and then you take that next step, guess what? There’s light for another.
Bill Lampton: One very quick final question as time seems to speed by: you talk about “measure forward.” Explain that, please.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: I’m sorry, talk about what?
Bill Lampton: “Measure forward.”
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Oh, measure forward. I’m not remembering that part. Give me a clue!
Bill Lampton: (laughs) Well, I don’t have a clue! I thought I had read where you said that instead of measuring looking at everybody else, measure forward.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: (laughs) How about a different last question?
Oh, moving forward! Yeah, that’s kind of what I was talking about in terms of looking at your own lane. I forgot that I called it that in the YouTube.
It’s looking forward and measuring what your step is. And then, when you get discouraged and you think, “Man, I’m not getting anywhere with this,” take a snapshot of where you are right now and where you were at some point in the past, and ask yourself: “Am I still there?”
No. I’m further along than I was. Maybe I’m not where I expected I would be by now, but I am moving forward. So measure forward.
Bill Lampton: I like that. And I like the wonderful tips and strategies that you have brought us today, which is what The Biz Communication Show is all about.
Could you sort of pull together in a minute or so what you would like to leave with our viewers and listeners on the topics that we’ve talked about?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Sure. I think really one of the central things is: don’t tell yourself you have no control, because we always have choices. Others are making choices about their own lives and their own responses, and you may feel paralyzed, you may feel like you’ve lost some of what you had.
This is what I think about a lot, and it’s my definition of responsibility:
  • Do all you can (not what somebody else ought to do),
  • With all you have (not what you used to have, but what you have now),
  • Where you are, right now (not where you thought you were going to be, and not where you’ll be in the future, but where you are right now).
Get moving with action, and there’ll be light for another step.
Bill Lampton: Those are marvelous guidelines to wind up the conversation. I know, Bev, that there are those who have watched this interview—this conversation, I like to call it—and who have heard it on podcast and would like to contact you. Would you please give us your contact information?
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yeah, I’ll just give my email, which is bev@drbevsmallwood.com—it’s “dr” no period—or the website, drbevsmallwood.com.
Bill Lampton: Thank you so much. And mention once more for us the title of the upcoming book, please, so we’ll be on the lookout for that.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Yes, that’s coming in October: All the Rage: How to Deal with Angry People Without Becoming One Yourself.
Bill Lampton: As we said at the outset, a much-needed topic.
And now, Bev, that you’ve very kindly given your contact information, I want to give mine:
  • YouTube Channel: Bill Lampton, Ph.D. As I said, this show has been posted for eight years, so there are many interviews on there with prominent people who are great resources. I encourage you to subscribe to my YouTube channel.
  • Website: bizcommunicationguy.com. I would love to hear by phone—with no initial commitment financially—from those of you who want to know more about communication training and growth.
  • Phone: 678-316-4300.
I want to mention as well the co-producer of this show. His name is Mike Stewart. Mike is based in Nashville, and Mike has been my guru for a long time. I have relied on him since 1996, and he became a real pioneer in marketing and internet development when all those things were coming along, and he’s continued to be a great resource for me. His website is localinternetpresence.com.
Dr. Bev Smallwood, again, such a pleasure to have you on the program. We’re very grateful.
Dr. Bev Smallwood: Thank you for having me. I appreciate it, and love being with you—always do, Bill.
Bill Lampton: Yes, good to talk to a hometown person that I haven’t talked to in a long time. So appreciate it very much.
I invite those of you who have watched our interview to be with us again on the next version of The Biz Communication Show.