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Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Hi there, welcome to the biz communication Show. I’m your host, Bill Lampton the business communication guy, bringing you communication tips and strategies that will boost your business. And I know they will boost mine too, because I listen intently to our guest, just as you will. And today we’re very privileged to have coming to us from the Greater Atlanta metropolitan area John Ray. John Ray advises consultants, coaches, attorneys and other services professionals on what are often their two biggest problems, pricing and business development. John is passionate about how changes and mindset positioning and pricing change the trajectory of a business and the lifestyle choices of a business owner. John is the best selling author of the book, The generosity mindset, a journey to business success by raising your confidence, value, and prices. The book covers topics like value, and adopting a mindset of value, pricing your services more effectively, proposals and essential elements of growing your business. John is also a studio owner, producer and show host with Business Radio X. And John works with business owners who want to do their own podcast. He is the host of North Fulton Business Radio, and the price and value journey. Amazingly, John has hosted and are produced over 2200 podcast episode. So I know that you join me and welcoming John Ray. Hello, John,
John Ray
Bill, how you doing great to be with you. I’m so excited and grateful that you had me on? Well,
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
it is it is a pleasure for me. And it’s a pleasure, privilege and learning experience for our guests. And I’ll say about your book, The generosity mindset that I can attest, very enthusiastically to the value of the book, I reviewed it on Amazon and John, my only regret was I could only give it five stars review, I would have given it 10 Because there’s so much practical advice in that book, which we’ll discuss in a minute. But first, I want to ask you, and this was not included in our introduction, but I do know that you had a first career and investment investment banking. And so here you are now an entrepreneur, who is dedicated, really committed to helping others succeed. So my question and I’m sure, something I guess we’d like to know is what transition you far from working for corporate America to suddenly working for the rest of us helping us improve our business and our life as well. What what prompted that, John?
John Ray
Well, the the cheeky answer to that question, Bill is that corporate America didn’t want me anymore. Once I got over 50 I got on someone’s list is being an expensive employee. So I got I got laid off. That’s That’s what happened to me. And we won’t name the big bank that did it. But you can go look at my LinkedIn profile and make a guess,
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
anybody, anybody who has who does not believe in, and age discrimination must be below 35 years old, right?
John Ray
That’s exactly right. So if you don’t believe it, just wait until you’re 50 and you’ll believe it. But no, you know, and I think that for like a lot of people that go through that. I was like a lot of people that go through that. You know, you have a situation where you take stock of where you are and what you want to do and I was heavily involved in a lot of activities in that community and charitable activities. And I really was tired of getting on a plane and flying to headquarters in you know, kissing the ring is corporate ring, is it worse. So that’s why I started my own business. And that was, what about 1112 years ago now. And that’s been very rewarding for me. And you know, I did it as I described in the book. From a point of what I what I call the generosity mindset, there’s a lot of different ways to look at it and and to talk about it. And what I talked about in the book is nothing new, as I say in the book. But it’s trying to serve others, and succeeding by serving others.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
The generosity mindset, it’s, it’s quite in contrast of what you and I often see, for example, on LinkedIn, I know that you and I are both very active daily on LinkedIn. And for those who are not connected with you on LinkedIn, John, I strongly recommend that because every day you give us some business gyms, which we probably haven’t heard before, are it’s a new slant or new angle we need. So I certainly encourage people to connect with you there. But one of the, one of the major factors that comes across on LinkedIn, as there are so many people who tell, tell, tell, and they sell, sell, sell, and it’s all about themselves. And the idea of promoting somebody else, the idea of helping somebody else succeed, is just not quite in their thinking that has become if I might put it that way. Helping others succeed through the generosity mindset, has pretty well become your mantra.
John Ray
Yeah, well, let’s, let’s just say this, it is easy to fall into the trap of thinking that because I’m a solopreneur, I’m in charge of my own small professional services firm, that I have to promote. I mean, it’s real easy to fall into that trap. Because who else is going to do it? Right, if I don’t do it, and and you see others doing it on LinkedIn, and or, in other ways, not just on LinkedIn. And you think that’s the only way to do it. And it’s much easier to kind of fall into line with that and, and be selfie oriented, self promotional, right? It’s really easy to do that. The problem with that is you’re not you don’t really stand out, when that’s what you do. Because there are a lot of people that do that, and you’re not unique, whatever you are, whatever your discipline is, you’re not the only one out there that that does it. I just think it’s a better way to look at the world to serve first. And to put yourself most importantly, in the mindset of those that are potentially seeking your services, what are their issues, what are their problems, and you may not be the best source of solutions for their problems, in your, the way you’ve positioned yourself may not be the best solution, you may have a lot to learn, when you come out of corporate, for example, like I did, about who your target audience is and how best to serve them. So, you know, I think, here’s the irony of it. And I know, this is something we’ll talk more about. But the irony of taking a what I call the generosity mindset is it really serves you better, because you’re you put yourself in the mindset of those you serve, is put position to you and a much better way to succeed in your solopreneur business, or your small firm, professional services business. Then taking the promotional route.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
I know that you’re very familiar with our our friend, LinkedIn expert, Greg Burkhalter. And Greg, of course, teaches this to all of his clients that if your focus is entirely on you, if that’s where the spotlight is there, there are not many people who are going to stick around for that show. And one of the things that I’ve had the the opportunity to do on this program, and I’m sure you have on yours, John, is to interview which I’ll be doing again soon. Social media experts, and the social media experts are reflecting that generosity mind set as well, that when you go on the social media are in our case, if you’re at a networking event, or if you’re sitting down with a prospective client, if you’re focusing on your needs, that’s, that’s a turn off. And instead, as you will put it and social media experts that I know put it, the point is to engage. And I’ll tell you, we all learn from our mistakes. I hope we do. And I shouldn’t be brilliant, because I’ve made a lot of mistakes. And one that I remember, very early in my career, John, this was 1999. And I had just been come a consultant. And I was very privileged to get an opportunity to, to meet with Vince Dooley, the revered coach at that time and athletic director, longtime athletic director at University of Georgia, and I wanted to talk to Vince about what I could do for his athletic Association. And so we had a cordial introduction. And he said, What do you have in mind? And I said, Well, I certainly can provide media training for your people. And I had certainly a handout on that time. And he said, we’ve already got somebody for that. What else do you do? So we strike out if we assume there’s that old saying about assuming and we strike out if we assume that we know somebody else’s needs, we don’t know anybody else’s needs. And one of the factors I think you’ve brought into play is that they might not even know them, until we have what we call the value conversation. And, John, I want to talk with you and we want to hear more about the value conversation. We’ll be back right after this. Do
John Ray
you wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive and sales, then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton, he spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success? I urge you to call the business communication guide today for a no cost, but very valuable. 30 minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now. 678-316-4300? Again, that’s 678-316-4300.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Yes, John, the old style of making a sale wants to go in with your predetermined pitch, which you had been trained on and, and memorize, and you almost regurgitate it. When your host says, What are you here for as Vince Dooley said for me, and by the way, the the happy ending to that story was that he and I talked and then about customer service, and I directed a 90 minute seminar for the Athletic Association, which I would never have gotten to done if he had not been so patient with the mistake I made to start with. But I admit my mistakes because, again, is what I’ve learned for them. Okay. We mentioned the value conversation. Take us through that. John, what is that? Well,
John Ray
so the value conversation is one in which you do less talking and more listening, and listing in response oftentimes to questions that lead the client the prospect into a bit of a journey into what their issues are, and those issues. I think you start out by saying, let’s, let’s talk about what your issues are generally, not just the reason we got connected, not just the reason you called me where you think you may need this or that that I provide, but let’s just talk in general about where you are in the business. And then when you do that, you got a much better sense of what that client values and what their needs really are. I mean, that if you’re a CPA, they might have called you for tax return preparation, what they really need is advisory work on their business. That’s what they might really have the biggest need for that’s just one example. So the so there’s that and then when you know the The hopes, needs concerns dreams of that client. You know what they value and you know both what they value from, from the tangibles, the tax return the business advisory services, legal services, what have you. But you also know the intangibles that they value, the outcomes that they’re looking for, that are intangible and only really floating around inside their head and heart. The fact that they want to retire sometime in the next few years, or the fact that, you know, they’ve been, the business has been so consuming, that they haven’t been on vacation with the spouse in several years. And they want to get to that point, or are there any number of intangibles that are driving the tangible desire for a particular service. So those intangibles are key because those have very high value for that client. And when you understand what that those intangibles are in their value to that client, then you’re in a much better position, number one, to satisfy those needs with the outcomes of your services. And number two, to price your services to reflect the value that they see.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
You have brought up a word which some of us probably tremble when we hear this word pricing. Most of us who are in the entrepreneurial category, and even others, we wish that that was something we didn’t have to discuss often because we’re afraid to talk about our level of value. And to me, John, not only in your book, but then your postings on LinkedIn. And in the several seminars of years that I have attended. This is one of your greatest contributions that you share with us is how we go about pricing our services, the tendencies a lot of people have when they start out is even if they are speakers, or even if they are consultants or coaches. They look around and they say, Well, you know, my plumber charges by the hour my electrician does, my yard man does. I guess I’ll just set an hourly price. As a southern saying was a from the get go? You have you have said that’s not the right idea. And explain to us please, why it isn’t because it’s a time honored tradition.
John Ray
Well, that’s that’s part of the point, pardon the pun, it is a time honored tradition. And and, and that’s the reason people do it only because everybody else is doing it and when. And that’s a terrible reason to do it. I mean, there are a number of reasons, I go into quite a list in the book about what the problem is with hourly pricing. But here’s what it really boils down to. An hourly price is not a price, it is an input, it is a one factor, but it’s all arranged around and oriented toward me as the service provider. And in some cases, in fact, a lot of cases, it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the outcomes that I deliver to clients. So it makes absolutely no sense to use a figure that has that’s oriented completely to me, and not oriented to the value that I provide to clients as a service provider. So that’s, that’s why I’ve got a problem with hourly pricing, not just for the client, but for the service provider. And I contend that by definition, if you are pricing by the hour, your price is inadequate, that you’re not pricing relative to value that you provide as and the transformation you deliver as a professional services provider.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
We have a couple of more minutes and I want to I want to ask you to this was something that I had not heard from any business advisors before I started attending your very valuable workshops and that is So, speaking of pricing, when we present a plan to a prospective client, your advice has been and I’ve implemented it, and many, many hundreds of people who have followed your advice have implemented it. Don’t just give them one option. Why not just give them one option? And one price? What’s the advantage of giving? Two or three options?
John Ray
Yeah, well, the magic number is three, three options. And it really is a human thing. I mean, we have a preference for choice number one, is human beings, we like choice. And we also like, threes. So you see this in the business world again, and again, there’s small, medium, and large, you go to the car websites, and there’s the you know, the basic model, the intermediate model, and the luxury model all over the same type of car. Right? So I mean, there’s, there’s a preference that buyers have both products and services have toward number one, a choice. And number two, options. And so what you’re doing with options is something that I say is, it’s a generous act, you’re trying to match up, you’re trying to give a client options to choose from that they can look at and best choose what works for them. Because even after an effective value conversation, when you get to the proposal stage, there may be things that come up that the client has not disclosed to you and you get to the proposal stage. And if you have a one option proposal, then it’s basically it’s a take it or leave it kind of situation. Whereas a three option proposal, invites discussion invites further dialogue, where some of those things that a client has not disclosed. Or maybe you’ve not gotten to in a value conversation, that they can more easily come to the surface, if there’s some options over which to discuss. Now, the point for the service provider is that it’s gives you a much better way to price toward client values. Some clients, they just want the basic thing you offer, that’s it, they just want just the plain vanilla model, then there are some clients that they want, at what I call, they want to get behind the velvet rope they want everything that you offer, they want the the Lexus version of whatever you offer, if I can put it that way. And then most people are in the middle. And they want a little bit of of the best, but they don’t want the full piece of it. And they want to be right in the middle with how they spend their money. So by definition, if you offer options, instead of just one, you’re giving yourself a better, you’re doing better for the client, you’re giving them more choices. But you’re also giving yourself a better chance to maximize your revenue from those clients. So it’s an act of generosity. I call it an act of generosity. It’s calling it first thinking but it actually benefits you as the service provider.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
John, this has has been so valuable. And I again, I’m going to ask you for your contact information in a minute. I encourage every one of our viewers on YouTube and our listeners on the podcast to get connected with John Ray, he is an incredible resource. And and in his book, I want you to pay attention to his his his definite approach to what we say about ourselves when we set our prices. We have not gotten to discuss that but it’s extremely valuable. John Ray, thank you so much for being with us today. It’s great to have you again on the biz communication show and I would give that book 10 stars Oh, I’m encouraging everyone to get it. Underline it as I did enjoy it and benefit from it and put it into practice. What’s your contact information, John because I know our viewers and listeners will want to be in touch with you.
John Ray
Well, Bill, thank you so much for, again for your invitation. And thank you for your kind words. Those those reviews are the review you wrote is was very kind. And I’m really, really grateful for that. And grateful to come on your show again. So thank you again, for that. So the best way to get in touch with me, you can go to John ray.co is my website, you can also type in the generosity mindset.com and find me there and find out more about the book and the other things that I’m up to as well. And of course, as you mentioned, build, I’m delighted for folks to connect with me on LinkedIn. I’ve got a LinkedIn newsletter that goes out pretty much every Thursday. So you can that as a lot of my ideas and thoughts and so forth there. It’s called the price and value journey. So you if you want, if you’re interested in that newsletter, you can subscribe through LinkedIn.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
It’s a newsletter I read every time you post it, and I come comment because it’s it’s such helpful material.
John Ray
Thank you, John, thank
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
you for giving your contact information. And now that you given yours, I’m happy to share mine invite you to go to my YouTube channel, my youtube channel if you go to the search bar and type in my name Bill Lampton PhD, that’s why it’s so listed on YouTube, you’ll have access to my YouTube channel, and please hit that subscribe button. There are more than 450 instructional videos on there. And in the last four to five years, many of them are interviews with experts like John Ray on this biz communication show, so be sure to subscribe to my YouTube channel. My website since I’m the biz communication guy, quite logically, my website is bi Z biz communication guy.com. And then, like John Ray, I’m open to talking with you about your concerns, your professional goals, your issues, your communication, challenges and problems. And so get me in non obligation exploratory call 678-316-4300. John Ray, again, a fascinating half hour so informative, so enjoyable. How would you pull together what we’ve said in 30 seconds or so?
John Ray
Yeah, make it about other people. I mean, learn to ask questions that get gets you inside the head and heart of the clients that you want to serve and dig deep. Learn ask questions and adopt a mindset of generosity and come at your business through the minds of your clients and prospects. And if you do that, I think you’ll be successful in ways that you can’t even imagine.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Terrific, thank you. Thanks to those of you who joined us today on the biz communication show the video portion and the podcast portion. And by the way, when you go to my website that I mentioned biz communication guide.com You’ll find a way on there to subscribe to the podcast I mentioned how you could subscribe to my YouTube channel but you can subscribe to this podcast by going to the website biz communication guy.com It’s great to have John Ray with us today is wonderful to have each of you who have joined us and so I encourage you and invite you to be again with us the next time for the next version of the biz communication show
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
