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Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Hi there, welcome to the best communication Show. I’m your host Bill Lampton, that is communication guy. You and I are going to learn today from a tremendous expert in the area of communication. And whether you’re viewing our interview on video or whether you’re listening on podcast, I know that you will benefit as I will, because I learned plenty every time that I have the opportunity to host Dianna Booher Diana Baur comes to us from the Greater Dallas Fort Worth metroplex. Colleyville, Texas. Now, you may not have met Dianna Booher yet, but chances are, you have one of her books on your shelf, I can tell you, I’ve got several of them. She’s the best selling author of 49 books. I’ve often told her she’s written more books and some of us have read 49 books published in 62 Foreign Language editions, with nearly 4 million copies sold. Her books are published by Penguin Random House Simon and Schuster, HarperCollins and McGraw Hill. Her latest titles include faster, fewer better emails, communicate like a leader. What more can I say why communication fails and what to do about it. Creating personal presence. national media frequently feature her work on communication issues. Good Morning America, USA Today, The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, NPR, Bloomberg Fast Company, just to name a few. Diana’s clients include more than 1/3 of the Fortune 500 Plus governmental agencies like the Navy, the army, the IRS and NASA. But, and I love this. Diana tells me there’s one client where she’s absolutely failed to improve communication. The US Senate. Well, I couldn’t agree. So let’s welcome Dianna Booher. Hello, Diana.
Dianna Booher
Hello. Great to be with you, Bill. Yes,
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
it’s terrific to be with you. And several weeks ago, I noticed a post and I read all your post on LinkedIn. And I noticed one, where you talked about civility and you said really what the world needs. And communication is both clarity, and civility. Now you and I are well aware as our our viewers and listeners that even I guess in the first grade, they started teaching us clarity. And that might have caught on to some degree, but civility seems to be missing. Tell me, please, us, please. First of all, what sparked your interest in this topic?
Dianna Booher
I think social media and politics but both of those, I can’t do anything about politics. I’m not I’m not working with candidates. But I think social media in all different topics, whether they’re talking politics, or religion, or leadership or whatever. It just people seem to be blunt, just very, very blunt, because they’re not standing face to face. So they don’t see that immediate, horrified reaction. And that makes me think a lot more about why we’ve gotten to this point.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
I think that you’re right on target there. And one of the one of the personal and professional restraints I have is just not to get into some of those issues. Because there’s there’s very little in the way of tolerance, there’s very little in the way of listening, there’s very little in the way of hearing other people’s opinions and respecting them. So social media, I can understand why that called it to your attention. Now. I noticed also that, of course, you wrote a book about email, as I mentioned in the introduction, what and civility do you see in our usage of email and how would you improve that?
Dianna Booher
Well, the thing I noticed the most is people hitting reply all. You can understand why somebody would send out an email to a lot of people if you’re trying to get their approval. For example, let’s say boss is sending out an email saying I’m getting ready to send our quarterly report up to headquarters. Does anybody have a senior mistake, and this was they may want to include anything else. So I could see why they have a big distribution list. But for everybody to go back and say, Fine, looks fine, no, it’s nothing to add. that’s those are meaningless comments. And when you’re sitting there with your inbox open, and it’s going Ding, ding, ding, ding. And of course, you can turn off the notifications. But still, that to me is not thinking of the other person and how you’re disrupting their work day. Another one bill that I think that’s very common, is calling somebody out without without enough finesse, I guess is the way you might say it. But you know, in other words, having a string and email chain going back and forth on the same topic, and then all of a sudden, certain other people get copied and their boss’s boss’s boss, etc. And then you not very suddenly correct someone, well, when you stated such and such, actually, the real fact is are actually the data it shows it correcting people in front of others that were it might have ramifications for their for their career or their reputation. I don’t think that’s a good idea, either, it’s far better to just email them.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
As much as you have worked with executives, you’ve been teaching them for decades, if you’re going to correct somebody are, are telling them, they’re not doing something very well, you certainly have told them to do that, and private. And it’s even worse, as you say, with email, because then it’s not an audience, possibly of one or two or three people, but it’s a larger audience. It’s the whole team. And then the team might circulate that information or that reprimand to others in the organization,
Dianna Booher
right. And the same thing happens, just putting a confidential comment in there, you know, maybe you think you’re just talking to two or three people at once, you know, talking directly to one person, you’ve copied a couple of people and you say, well, just between you just between you and me. Frank really didn’t know what he was doing when he did that survey. And then later the chain, other people get added to that chain and are copied, and they forget, the person who made that kind of comment, forgets that that personal dig is somewhere in there, and the person who gets that copy, and they go back and read the hell straight. And so just passing on sharp remarks, corrections. Any of that just has no place in the civil discussion.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
And I think another point that you certainly wrote about in your book, and you and I have both worked with clients, and trying to educate them about the best use of email. One important point is, and sometimes we forget this, but one very important point is that something that is said in writing, which might have potential and negative ramifications, it’s much stronger and writing than it is, if you’re just talking to somebody, for example, if I were talking to you, Diana, and just talking with you face to face, and I said something to the effect of, you know, here’s here’s a point I believe you can improve on, you’re looking at me and I’m smiling and you’re you’re taking that and good faith. But if you just get a one oneness email, it says that is much harsher, isn’t it?
Dianna Booher
Yes. And people will tend to stew over that and think, you know, what can I read? What did they really mean? And along that same line, bill is being brief, you know, some people pride themselves on being brief. But brevity can lead the bluntness. I just sent out an email to a group of 12 for a private little get together that was going to have and most of them said, looking forward to it. See, you then got it on my calendar. Somebody said, I’ll be there. And just because of that, no other extra comment, got the point across but it sounds blunt. So brevity is not always good. Particularly if the message can be taken in a in a negative way.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Yes, maybe something to the effect. I’ll be there. Thanks for the invitation looking forward to it or are something like that. And during my 20 years in management, there was one point I noticed and that was before email, but we had other ways of sending messages. To me civility could sometimes even from from an executive could sometimes include the word please.
Dianna Booher
Yeah, there are a lot of pleasantries that should work their way into those executive emails because they sound I mean, by the nature of their role. They’re directive. They’re giving people instructions. Is there telling Yes, this is approved? Or no, it’s not. But it’s even more important to add those pleasantries, please thank you, I would appreciate it cetera. And some people just don’t buy into that, like thank the boss, I’ll just say what I want and then move on. But I think it’s really important to get the person’s buy in and to build connection. And I think, you know, Bill, the reason people have the wrong tone on email a lot of times is they don’t understand the difference between emphasis when you’re speaking, you know, I can hit a word I can inflect, lower my voice inflect, a word for emphasis. But people don’t know how to do that. Right? And that what they’re saying does not come across in the way they intended. And that makes a lot of female sound angry or are in civil?
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Yes. And I can’t recall the exact example. Maybe you can. But I remember seeing an illustration one time of something that was said in writing. And it, let’s say it was a seven word summons. And it showed the impact of emphasizing each different word. If you said, seven or so different times.
Dianna Booher
I’ve got an example of that, you can say, Mark said that John was about ready to retire. Mark said that John was about ready to Mark said John was ready to attack. John said, Mark was ready to retire. Yeah, I can change that over and over according to which word I inflict, and even listen to my voice. And then I change it to a question from a sentence. So people gotta think about, do you know, it’s the placement of words, and it’s the punctuation you use? That actually tells people your voice inflection? And if you’ve never thought about that, chances are they’re not going to read with their eyes what you thought you said and your mind.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
I’m not surprised that you had a an example. Read it.
Dianna Booher
I thought a better one. But you know, I had that same thing happen to me with someone taking the tone. Not like I met, I don’t know, if it was actually the way I said it, or they were reading into it. But here’s, here’s what I mean about choosing the exact precise word and thinking in different ways. At emailed my account, on a Thursday or Friday, and ask them to follow up with his big discussion with the IRS. And I hear back from her on Monday. So I got a nifty different facts that I wanted to put in. And I said, I wrote this sentence, I wrote it down, because I was going to give you an example. I said, since you haven’t yet responded to my Friday email about the tax question I’m sending along and an additional fact that may help in your research on this issue. I didn’t see anything wrong with that Senate’s response to me was, I certainly hope I am misreading the tone of this document, I have had no time to answer email, because she picked up on because meaning sense, because you haven’t responded since Friday, I’m doing such and such when I just met time, you know, since I didn’t get back, it’s not too late to send you this additional fact. So even when we are trying to be clear, and we’re trying to be civil, it takes thought into what you’re doing. And many times we’re just dashing off female with with no thought.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
That’s an example that rings so become so familiar to me, because I had the same thing happened one time, I sent someone an email during my management days, and I hadn’t heard from them. And so I called them and left a voicemail. And I said, since you did not answer my email, and she wrote back and said, I had always answer emails and always answer phone calls. And as I remember, was about a page and a half a scathing response. So it goes back to the old bit of that one of the basics of communication. It’s not just what you say, but how it’s going to be interpreted.
Dianna Booher
Absolutely. And that’s difficult to know, even when you know how to place words. In our English language. There are words that have different meanings. I gave you that one sense, it can mean time, or it can mean because that’s a really troublesome one. And there are many other examples like that.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Yes, that in a minute. After a brief business information note, you and I are going to talk about cell phone courtesy. Do you
Michael Stewart
wish you felt confident about giving speeches? Do you want to deal with difficult people constructively? And what about becoming more persuasive and sales? Then keep listening now to Dr. Bill Lampton, he spent 20 years in management, so he knows the communication skills you need for success. I urge you to Call the biz communication guide today for a no call, but very valuable 30 minute discussion about your communication challenges. Call now. 678-316-4300. Again, that’s 678-316-4300.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Speaking of calling, let’s get back to our discussion about cell phones. I know you’ve written a book about email, you could write volumes about cell phone, misuse and incivility, what would be a couple of examples that come to mind right away?
Dianna Booher
Well, one is talking loudly on a private phone call when a lot of other people around it not only is a security issue, if you’re giving out your phone number, or it’s just, they can’t think they can’t focus on what they’re doing, because you’re talking so loudly on your phone. And I’ll give you a great correction for that, that I found out, a friend of mine told me she did she was sitting at the airport and lounge. And some guy was, you know, trying to impress people, I guess saying, This is so and so called, like living his name, kept living as phone numbers and call me back, I need to talk to you about x and talking to his financial advisor and just kept on call after call after call him finally she had heard his number, she wrote it down and she texts him and says, the people around you seated at gate 31, wish you would shut up.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
That’s a fabulous response. That is a fabulous. She got the message. Well, I remember and you and I talked about this one time. On LinkedIn, I remember a situation where my wife, Sandra, and I were in a small dining breakfast room at a motel and one lady there, and it could have been a guy. So I’m not picking anybody. I just happen to be a lady. One lady there decided to let every one of us know how many how many cities, she had her cooperation, and she called each one and and let us all hear that. And I’ll have to say that as my wife was leaving the breakfast area, she let the caller know that. That we didn’t need to know everything that she had been trying to flaunt and the way of her business. So certainly that’s that’s one bid is, is not just making, it’s supposed to be a private phone call, right?
Dianna Booher
That’s the term that’s the key word operative word there private. You know, another thing that bothers me too, about calls? Is that stopping a face to face conversation to take a call now? Oh, yeah. The situation? Yes. Somebody you’re expecting somebody to call because you have a sick child at school, you need to pick them up, you see the school’s calling. That’s different. But just normally, you know, you’re talking even I’ve had this happened in sales situation, you’re talking to the seller, you’re the buyer, and all of a sudden, he goes, Oh, I need to get back to this customer. Can you wait a minute, and I’m thinking, I’m the customer right in front of you? What do you mean? So I think interruptions like that. It’s not good, leaving your notifications on and a meeting. So that beep, beep, beep all through the meeting, instead of turning it off. All of those are, are just not good interpersonal skills, much less being what I call it and civil.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
It’s similar to me, Diana, to a networking opportunity when you’re talking with somebody, and you realize that they’re looking over their shoulder trying to find somebody more important.
Dianna Booher
I can’t imagine that whatever happened to you, Bill, but it has happened to me.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
That happens to all of us, Diana, very much. So, one time for one more comment. And I’ve seen you write about this, on LinkedIn and in your articles and in your books. I remember one time you were talking about how many calls you had to make to a customer service rep. And how then you were transferred to another one and so on. Give us two or three tips for people who are customer service reps when they get calls? What how can they be more civil than maybe we’ve been experiencing?
Dianna Booher
Well, it depends on what you would which videos you would think about being uncivil or not. But mumbling you’ll see a lot of people on the other end particularly call helpdesk, or support for something that you’re buying online, and they’re gonna, you know, and you think you can just visualize them looking down looking through a manual talking to themselves. And sometimes I’ve even had to say, are you talking to me? Are you talking to somebody else? But that’s that’s a real irritant, and putting somebody on hold without telling them approximate How long it’s going to be in what you’re doing. I mean, people just they just like they disappear. And there’s quiet and you think, are you there? And occasionally, you know, they will speak up and say, Yes, I’m still here. And I’m thinking, you should have told me that you’re there. If you’re going to do something just like, can you hold on for about a minute, I’m going to call somebody on the back line, and then back office and ask so and so then you have an idea, oh, I can read another email, or I can do something, they’re not just going to be back to me in 10 seconds. And then don’t keep them on hold that long. Generally, when we’ve taught customer service communications, for organizations, we tell their people should not be on hold more than 20 seconds. So that’s good. And if people think that’s a that’s too short, you can’t get anything done. They should set the clock. And actually, we have them do it. Get out your timer on your phone and run it for 20 seconds and see how long that is just sitting there waiting. It’s a long time and you need to let people know if it’s going to be longer than that very
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
good point. Finished. I’ve sometimes said that I I’ve went sickly said that. Oh, my tombstone, I’d like to have inscribed, I’m still on hold.
Dianna Booher
Oh, can I ever identify with that? And then to make it worse, the recording comes on and says we were helping other customers we value your wave? Oh, yes. And in everything about the call says we don’t value you the way they talk the way they put you on hold, making you whole for 45 minutes, and then getting a voice greeting and after you finally get put through to the right person. All of that just says the opposite. You are not important to us.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
And then of course, on that line and then we’re going to have to pull our conversation to a close but along that line is we call they answer were Do you mind if we put you on hold on before we can answer when we’re on hold so it’s not even an exchange? There’s not really a question it’s so there’s a lot of thank you so much Diana for giving us a lesson on civility and it’s it can be improved in every atmosphere of business and we’ve talked about and then some others so you will have to come back another time and we can talk about some other aspects of civility and communication. This has been a very civil conversation.
Dianna Booher
It has it’s a good thing we agree
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
very much so Diana I know that there are many who have listened and viewed who want to know about how to get in touch with you. And I will say to our viewers and listeners Diana Baur with her truly world acclaim and her worldwide recognition and the professional respect that she has from so many is a wonderfully approachable person so Vana. Tell us your contact information please that you’d like to share?
Dianna Booher
Thank you Bill. It’s Booher like my last name and always spell it B O H ER it’s like Boo her except I hope they don’t bore research.com
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
Thank you Diana. Sure. And now that Diana has given her contact information, I’m delighted to give mine Bill Lampton the biz communication guy so logically, my website is biz bi Z biz communication guy.com And I also invite you to go to YouTube, and check into my YouTube channel. My YouTube channel is Bill Lampton PhD. In the search bar, put Bill Lampton PhD, I’ll take you to my YouTube channel, you’ll find this interview, and many more and also some one on one instruction that I’ve given on all types of topics of communication. And then naturally I like Diana, I want people to get in touch. So my cell phone number is 678-316-4300 again, 678-316-4300. Now Anna, and a closing remark for those who have joined us on the business communication show,
Dianna Booher
just to be confident in your communication and clear and compelling.
Bill Lampton Ph.D.
That’s a big order right there. And I certainly encourage anybody who is not familiar with Diana boogers books, get them I’ve got practically a shelf full of them. I’ve told her to quit writing I I can’t I can’t keep up with I can’t keep up with him. I can’t read as fast as she writes she does. She does a great job. So thanks to all of you for being with us be with us again on the next edition of the biz communication show
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
